Posted by Renée
I had an interesting conversation with a friend… well, maybe an ex-friend now, that got me thinking. I guess he had a bad week, but he started talking about how Black women keep complaining that they can’t find a good man. He went on to say that the reason many Black women can’t find a man is because they think they are too good for most Black men due to their education, career, and other aspirations.
Somewhere in the rant he made reference to the fact that he and other Black men don’t care about a woman’s multiple degrees, big house, or any of that. All they need is a good woman who knows “how to make a man feel like a man.”
Well, after I picked my jaw up off of the floor and came off of the phone, I started to think about what he had said. It is true that when you look at the research on divorce among Black couples, the woman’s higher education and financial independence seem to correlate with the likelihood to divorce. But, are we doomed the more education we have? Does our independence intimidate and/or turn off Black men? Does our ability to be self sufficient make us less willing to tolerate anything? Do we, as Black women, have to choose between personal success or relationship success? Or do we have to cover up our success with the pretense that we are needy in order to get a good man?
I’m now beginning to wonder if my educational goals, my upwardly moving career, my financial independence and my self-sufficiency was the cause of any past break-up, because Lord knows, my personality and attitude couldn’t possibly be the reason!
If the bottom line is that successful Black women are doomed to relationship failure, then what?
7 comments
Comments feed for this article
June 1, 2010 at 5:04 pm
Sucessful Black Man
Afternoon,
This seems to be a hot topic right now. I was watching something on tv this weekend with Hill Harper, Steve Harvey, and Sherri Sheppard about something like this
Renee,
I don’t know your friend/ ex-friend enough to judge him, but from reading what you said above, he might have some insecurities about being with a an educated, successful black woman. I believe that some (not all) black women are looking for a man with the same or higher level of achievements than they have. Whether for security purposes, or to brag, but I believe that what they are looking for in a black man can’t be easily found. There are more educated black men than women. Think back to college/ university and you’ll see. I don’t think Black Women have to choose between personal success or relationship success, but maybe make an adjust in what they are searching for. What exactly is a successful black woman looking for in a black man?
As for what your friend/ ex-friend said regarding not caring about a big house and the number of degrees etc. HA! I guarantee that if you put 2 women with great personalities in front of him, 1 with a job, and 1 without a job, he’ll pick the girl who is employed. It’s human nature to want the best out there. I believe that people should stop looking at the outer shell and see what is beneath. I believe Hill Harper said it best when he said you should look for “potential”
Anyhow, I have 2 questions to ask before I leave cause I hey at de plantation doing the peoples’ wuk.
1. If I was a janitor, or manager at a Wendy’s fast food restaurant would I have a chance with one of these successful black woman you are talking about? Would I catch her eye? Why or Why not?
2. What is a black women’s definition of success?
I know you can’t speak for all women Renee, but I’m curious to know how the successful black women in the GTA would answer the 2 questions above. What’s going through a successful black woman’s mind when she is looking for her successful man? What is success to her?
Sincerely,
Successful Black Man
June 2, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Renee
I certainly can’t speak on behalf of all Black women, but here’s my perspective…
I think any man can catch any woman’s eye with the right level of attraction. But, it takes ‘potential’ to get beyond the first conversation. I have met some very attractive people whose personalities were so awful that they were became ugly once I got to know them. I’ve met some very educated people, who didn’t have an ounce of street cents. And I’ve met some pretty socio-economically sound individuals who were so greedy that they didn’t want let go of their funds to go dutch on McDonalds.
That being said, your examples of a janitor or a Wendy’s manager would have a chance, I think, with a “successful Black woman.” Admittedly, that was not always the case. It has taken years and years of experience, heartbreak and growth to realize that success is defined by a lot more than how a person looks on paper. I used to have a checklist. The checklist is no longer. I have come to learn that success is defined differently by different people based on what they deem to be important.
Now I would be lying if I didn’t agree with the scenario you presented. Put two great guys in front of me, one with a job and one without, and all things being equal, I’d want the one that was gainfully employed! But, that’s because I’m employed too!!! I don’t think he’d be able to relate to my work woes and my exhaustion after he had been chilling all day… No double standards here.
I know for me, thanks to my parents, education is important. I definitely respect a good education. But, I also respect some good, logical, common sense because common sense is not very common these days! I also consider success to include a person’s goals and their willingness and efforts to achieve those goals and become a better person. As I said before, I no longer have a checklist. But given the things that I have accomplished for myself, I think the person of my choice would have to have some of his own accomplishments… whatever they may look like.
It is sometimes the case that two ‘successful’ people make for an ‘unsuccessful.’ With time, however, people begin to rethink their standards and start prioritizing what is important instead. That checklist starts turning into priority list that is up for negotiation. I can guarantee you that a 21 year old woman’s priorities are very different from a 31 year old woman’s priorities. Consequently, a younger woman’s definition of success would be different from an older woman’s definition.
June 2, 2010 at 7:04 pm
Sucessful Black Man
Renee,
Well said! I like everything you said. These successful black women who say they can’t find a man, need to take your advice, then I think they would see a few more men in the sea. Some of these women need to (know their priorites and) sift through their checklists to realize what is important to them, then I believe they might find that potential, or diamond in the rough.
I can’t speak from personal experience, but there are some black women out there who flaunt their education and financial independence around like it’s desginer jewlery, and that can be a turn off for some men. Some men might feel intimidated if you come all out with your accomplishments right in their face. I mean, imagine if you met Phil Jackson for the first time and somewhere in the conversation he won’t stop talking about his accomplishments … “That’s right Renee, 10 Championship Rings. Two full hands! Do you know how strong your wrists have to be to be able to wear 5 lbs of diamonds and gold. You know, 6 of those were from the 90’s ”. Hahahh anyhow …
To get back to what you said, here is my 2 cents:
• NO. I don’t believe a black woman’s education level and financial independence have anything to do with divorce
• NO. Having more education won’t doom you (only if you don’t talk to them (men) as if they will never achieve what you have achieved.)
• YES. Independence can intimidate some Black men (some men still believe that they have to bring home the pork)
I have nothing really to say regarding the last 3 questions/ statements you posted in your orignal blog. Well, it’s feeding time at the plantation. Until the next blog that catches my eye.
SBm
June 3, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Renee
Thanks for your reply … I just wanted to address something …
Research actually shows that Black women have a higher divorce rate than their White counterpart. Further, these women who are divorcing statistically have higher education and have the ability to be financially independent.
One of the reasons that the divorce rate has risen over the years is because ‘back in the day’ women were not financially able to be a single mother, and so more of them opted to stay married – happy or unhappy. Today, with so many independent women, the option to divorce is more viable.
I’m sure there is a lot more wrapped up in the issues surrounding divorce and Black women, but I’ll be sure to share the findings from my dissertation with you next year.
June 4, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Sucessful Black Man
Hey Renee,
Thanks for the info. hahahah I have to wait an entire year to hear your findings. I’ll probably forget about this blog by then.
July 7, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Steve
Renee,
As a black male I empathize with your situation but I think that we should step back and take a big picture look at the situation in which you wrote about.
It seems that you took exception to this gentlemen’s statement “Black men don’t care about a woman’s multiple degrees, big house, or any of that. All they need is a good woman who knows how to make a man feel like a man.” If your “mouth hit the floor” then I assume that you assumed you fully understood the brother’s comments. My question to you would be, how do you know that you understood what he was saying? Did you ask for clarification or an explanation? Did you lean on your own understanding of what you think he meant?
I believe one of the reasons that these kinds of conversations are so difficult between brothers and sisters (at least in the US) is because we do not seek clarity by asking questions and this leads to confusion and misunderstanding. I don’t know how many times that I have heard women complain about how their boyfriends or husbands don’t do the “little things” anymore. In these situations I always ask “what are the little things and would you please give me an example so that I may understand exactly what that is?”. What if the some of those little things are words and actions that make them feel important or wanted? What if the brother that you spoke to was really saying that “feeling like a man” was really about feeling desired, wanted and important not unlike anyone would want to feel in a relationship?
I would caution all of us to not jump to conclusions and really try to gain an understanding of exactly what people are saying concerning this issue so that confusion is eliminated and real progress can be made. Maybe a live open discussion on this issue would be just what the doctor ordered.
Thanks
Steve
August 21, 2011 at 1:07 am
Tony Collins
We endangerd but Im here to say goood black Men are still here